[abacacus]

I'm finally starting to get half decent with my screams/growls, whatever you want to call them. I'm not happy with my highs, which are almost non-existent, but my lows are Whitechapel-ish only lower.

Currently working on my range and on pig squeals (BREEE BREEEEEEEEE)

[lunaticitizen]

I'm also a vocalist. Actually I'm a singer-drummer But I don't do growls. My former band played songs from Iron Maiden, Scorpions, Metallica, etc. I enjoyed playing Master of Puppets a lot.

[abacacus]

My cleans are not the best... or even great really. The only reason I ever tried growling was because of how bad my singing is

[Craw]

Dude here is a wee word of advice. If you do growling and intend to be able to speak later in life then follow these simple steps.

1. Stop doing it. You've no idea just what your doing to your throat.

2. If you want to continue doing it, start vocal lessons asap and learn some techniques which will help you limit the damage you WILL do to your throat.

3. Make sure that you do vocal warm ups properly, spend about 20minutes warming up and stretching your vocal chords. Growling is extreme trauma to your larynx, you don't see weight lifters lifting without warming up.

4. Don't smoke a few hours prior to growling, don't smoke while growling (i'e during gigs or rehearsals) Don't smoke for a few days after your rehearsal/ gig.

5. Don't drink tea or coffee or eat spicey food. These things greatly dehydrate your larynx and increase the chances or irrepairable damage enormously. Drinking loads of water is about the best thing you can do for your throat.

6. Sing from your stomache. You should be able to feel your mouth and muzzle resonate if your performing correctly.

7. Plan your songs and phrazing carefully so you know exactly where your breathing. Running out of breath can cause you to squeeze and force a sound which can damage you.

I think you get the idea, there is loads and loads of ways to destroy your voice with growling. To those who like it it sounds great, to those who do it, it is torture.

[abacacus]

The only people I have ever seen actually have *any* damage to their throat from screaming or growling are those that do it purely from the throat... which hurts, and is stupid. I've never seen anyone who growls from the stomach harm themselves screaming, and I growl from the stomach (diaphragm) so I'm not worried about my voice.

To be honest, vocal cords actually aren't involved as much as you would think

[Craw]

abacacus, on Oct 18 2010, 03:54 PM, said:

To be honest, vocal cords actually aren't involved as much as you would think

Don't have to tell me dude. I'm trained

[abacacus]

I'm self learned with screams and growls but I was trained to sing when I was younger. I also did research into it before I learned, just to make sure I *wouldn't* kill my vocal cords.

[abacacus]

Learned pig squealing today whilst shaving my head. BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[FourPieceMetal]

abacacus, on 17 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

I'm finally starting to get half decent with my screams/growls, whatever you want to call them. I'm not happy with my highs, which are almost non-existent, but my lows are Whitechapel-ish only lower.

Currently working on my range and on pig squeals (BREEE BREEEEEEEEE)

Do you have any tips NOW, a year later? I'm trying to do them too, and i think they're pretty good. You say that the only way to truly do damage to your throat while growling is if you growl from the throat. What do you mean by that? When I growl, I press air out forcefully, so to say, from my abdomen, and my mouth vibrates and my chest vibrates, and my throat violently vibrates, or shakes. But, I guess you can expect that while you're GROWLING, right? lol. Any tips in general would be great! ty

This post has been edited by FourPieceMetal: 16 December 2011 - 07:03 AM

[abacacus]

FourPieceMetal, on 16 December 2011 - 07:03 AM, said:

Do you have any tips NOW, a year later? I'm trying to do them too, and i think they're pretty good. You say that the only way to truly do damage to your throat while growling is if you growl from the throat. What do you mean by that? When I growl, I press air out forcefully, so to say, from my abdomen, and my mouth vibrates and my chest vibrates, and my throat violently vibrates, or shakes. But, I guess you can expect that while you're GROWLING, right? lol. Any tips in general would be great! ty

Push from your stomach. You should REALLY be able to feel your stomach pushing the air out, not just shoving it out your lungs. If you feel pain, STOP, pain means something is wrong!

[FourPieceMetal]

abacacus, on 16 December 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

If you feel pain, STOP, pain means something is wrong!

I see this comment all the time, and I don't know what it means. Or I do, but I dont know when it's bad hat I feel pain. What my understanding is: If you feel pain afterwards, nothings wrong, and it's normal. If you feel pain while you're performing the vocals (like mid-growl) then you need to reevaluate how you're doing the growls. Is this correct?

I do the 'death metal growls'. The low ones. And I try everything I can. I am pretty sure I am doing them right, but everytime I do them, my throat feels scratchy, somewhat painful, and just plain raw aferwards. I don't think it's my vocal chords. I think it's purely my throat. But, the pain gets to the point where I need to stop, because eventually the pain comes while im in mid-growl. I think this is the basic understanding of how they're supposed to be done:

I=) <- Head
II <- Very top of throat. Just under collar bone. Vibration is good here.
II) <- Midde part of the throat w/ adams apple. You want this spot to vibrate most.
II <- Bottom of throat. You want little vibration here, but vibration is not uncommon.
II <- Very bottom of throat. This is where you're throat vibrates when you talk and sing. You want this part of your throat to vibrate as little as possible, if it vibrates at all. If it's vibrating ALOT you're doing something wrong.


Is this correct? I hope it looks understandable.

This post has been edited by FourPieceMetal: 16 December 2011 - 11:28 AM

[abacacus]

Any kind of sharp pain, during or afterwords, is VERY bad. Just a mild ache, be careful. You could be doing something wrong, you could just have a weak throat. Drink room temperature water during and after you scream or growl, DO NOT DRINK ANYTHING CARBONATED, and just be sure to relax. If the pain continues, I'd say you were doing something wrong and I'd look in to trying a different technique.

[realscotch]

You guys sound like you should be chasing each other around in the jungle.

If you do anything that causes you pain of any kind, doesn't that tell you something.

Seems to me that you should tighten your shorts and sing like Franky Valli.

[abacacus]

realscotch, on 16 December 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

You guys sound like you should be chasing each other around in the jungle.

If you do anything that causes you pain of any kind, doesn't that tell you something.

Seems to me that you should tighten your shorts and sing like Franky Valli.

Scotch, you have proven time and time again you know nothing about metal and that you have no interest in even trying to learn. No need to come in here and do it again

[einarabelc5]

Craw, on 18 October 2010 - 01:19 AM, said:

Dude here is a wee word of advice. If you do growling and intend to be able to speak later in life then follow these simple steps.

1. Stop doing it. You've no idea just what your doing to your throat.

2. If you want to continue doing it, start vocal lessons asap and learn some techniques which will help you limit the damage you WILL do to your throat.

3. Make sure that you do vocal warm ups properly, spend about 20minutes warming up and stretching your vocal chords. Growling is extreme trauma to your larynx, you don't see weight lifters lifting without warming up.

4. Don't smoke a few hours prior to growling, don't smoke while growling (i'e during gigs or rehearsals) Don't smoke for a few days after your rehearsal/ gig.

5. Don't drink tea or coffee or eat spicey food. These things greatly dehydrate your larynx and increase the chances or irrepairable damage enormously. Drinking loads of water is about the best thing you can do for your throat.

6. Sing from your stomache. You should be able to feel your mouth and muzzle resonate if your performing correctly.

7. Plan your songs and phrazing carefully so you know exactly where your breathing. Running out of breath can cause you to squeeze and force a sound which can damage you.

I think you get the idea, there is loads and loads of ways to destroy your voice with growling. To those who like it it sounds great, to those who do it, it is torture.

About using your larynx to produce the growl.

google

Jaime Vendera and Raise your voice it's pointed towards expanding your range AND extending your notes....among everything else you need to be a singer on the road singing everyday FOR YEARS and keeping your voice neat and useful.

He also has a new system exclusively for screamers.

BTW, if you're growling and traumatizing your larynx. You don't know what you're doing and YOU WILL lose your voice. To color your voice, growls fast vibratos(like Ac/DC) and so on YOU NEED to use your soft palate on the ceiling of your mouth. I agree with Crawl on being careful but he's also misguiding or ot being completely clear about it to you when it comes to producing the growling effect. he's totally right about warm ups, specially lip bubbles and vocal cord stretches.
You're not supposed to use your vocal cords to produce the growl sound from our larynx because that WILL produce Nodules in the long term or damage your cords some other ways, for example look at the singer Adele from Britain as a great example of coloring your voice with your throat incorrectly. She ended up taking surgery. That's the unsafe way to do it.

Again:

Jaime Vendera

Raise your Voice

Extreme Screams(Don't think about doing this without completing Raise your voice)

This post has been edited by einarabelc5: 16 December 2011 - 05:06 PM

[einarabelc5]

abacacus, on 16 December 2011 - 03:08 PM, said:

Scotch, you have proven time and time again you know nothing about metal and that you have no interest in even trying to learn. No need to come in here and do it again

But then again, he's right!!!

read my post above. You will hurt yourself due to your lack of respect and common sense. You can be your own guest.
I do know about metal and I agree with him, he's just using common sense.

[einarabelc5]

FourPieceMetal, on 16 December 2011 - 11:26 AM, said:

I see this comment all the time, and I don't know what it means. Or I do, but I dont know when it's bad hat I feel pain. What my understanding is: If you feel pain afterwards, nothings wrong, and it's normal. If you feel pain while you're performing the vocals (like mid-growl) then you need to reevaluate how you're doing the growls. Is this correct?

I do the 'death metal growls'. The low ones. And I try everything I can. I am pretty sure I am doing them right, but everytime I do them, my throat feels scratchy, somewhat painful, and just plain raw aferwards. I don't think it's my vocal chords. I think it's purely my throat. But, the pain gets to the point where I need to stop, because eventually the pain comes while im in mid-growl. I think this is the basic understanding of how they're supposed to be done:

I=) <- Head
II <- Very top of throat. Just under collar bone. Vibration is good here.
II) <- Midde part of the throat w/ adams apple. You want this spot to vibrate most.
II <- Bottom of throat. You want little vibration here, but vibration is not uncommon.
II <- Very bottom of throat. This is where you're throat vibrates when you talk and sing. You want this part of your throat to vibrate as little as possible, if it vibrates at all. If it's vibrating ALOT you're doing something wrong.


Is this correct? I hope it looks understandable.

Spent around 28 bucks on Raise your voice.... It will save your vocal cords. No one on this thread knows exactly what they're doing. There's a way to do it without pain AT ALL, and that book will explain you why and also HOW.

[Kikunan]

There is also the Zen of Screaming with Melissa Cross

[einarabelc5]

Kikunan, on 16 December 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

There is also the Zen of Screaming with Melissa Cross

+1

[abacacus]

einarabelc5, on 16 December 2011 - 04:58 PM, said:

But then again, he's right!!!

read my post above. You will hurt yourself due to your lack of respect and common sense. You can be your own guest.
I do know about metal and I agree with him, he's just using common sense.

I agree about the whole causing pain thing, but Scotch really does know nothing about metal, or screaming and he really has no basis on which to say anything

And the whole chasing round the jungle thing really grated my nerves too. No respect.