[Jared Falk]

drummer john, on Aug 22 2009, 08:40 AM, said:

I REALLY wanted The Drumming System, but I had major central air conditioning expenses this past week and I couldn't charge any more on my card right now, but wanted to wait a while until my finances were better, but now ya'll pulled it off FDL after giving us only a short time to buy a limited number - now you say we can't buy it at all unless we fork out $1000? NOT! Come on, guys - If I had $1000 to spend on the DS, I'd buy a really GOOD set of drums! What's up with that? I guess ya'll are going for the rich guys market now, which sure doesn't include me - I'm disappointed.

John,

I totally understand how all the extra expenses come up. We limited the number of units sold due to the amount of time/money/space it takes to get this product in. When we have the units in stock it is like a maze getting to our desks at the office. We are in the process of setting up a new office that will have more space, so we can properly stock this massive product. This is why we only bring in a certain amount for a short time and then either remove the product for sale, or raise the price to lower demand.

I really want to make everyone happy, I suggest you talk to Dave from our office as he may be able to help you get a package. Just email him at support(at)railroadmedia.com.

[drummer john]

Jared Falk, on Aug 22 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

John,

I totally understand how all the extra expenses come up. We limited the number of units sold due to the amount of time/money/space it takes to get this product in. When we have the units in stock it is like a maze getting to our desks at the office. We are in the process of setting up a new office that will have more space, so we can properly stock this massive product. This is why we only bring in a certain amount for a short time and then either remove the product for sale, or raise the price to lower demand.

I really want to make everyone happy, I suggest you talk to Dave from our office as he may be able to help you get a package. Just email him at support(at)railroadmedia.com.

Hi Jared - I appreciate your quick response, but times are still hard for a lot of folks - not just me. I'd like to see the old FDL Shop with all of the original packages and original prices reinstated - I think you'd be surprised at how many you'd sell. Our economy is still in a slump and it's not wise to make any product, no matter how good it is, financially unattainable.

[Jared Falk]

drummer john, on Aug 22 2009, 09:30 AM, said:

Hi Jared - I appreciate your quick response, but times are still hard for a lot of folks - not just me. I'd like to see the old FDL Shop with all of the original packages and original prices reinstated - I think you'd be surprised at how many you'd sell. Our economy is still in a slump and it's not wise to make any product, no matter how good it is, financially unattainable.

John,

Thanks so much for the feedback. We will definitely take it into consideration. In the meantime, send Dave an email and I am sure he can help you out.

[drummingphil]

Unfortunately I think the saying is - 'You Snooze, You Lose!'.

If it's any consolation, I would still say that at $1000 it is still very worthwhile - it may take some of you a bit of time to save the money but it is an excellent package.

I am saving for a high end kit - looking at some DW kits, the Sonor SQ system and the Yamaha Recording custom at the moment, however I am absolutely ecstatic that I bought this package rather than putting the money towards the kit (which was a dilemma I had a few months back).

Great kits will always be available, investment in your drumming education is best done as early as possible. I'm just gutted that this package wasn't available 10 years ago (though back then there is no way I could have afforded it.)

I've just read my review (see earlier post) and having played the package more in depth in the last few weeks and really haven't done it the justice it deserves. Hopefully i'll do a more in depth review at some point - I just don't have the time at the moment.

Phil

[Jared Falk]

drummingphil, on Aug 22 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

Unfortunately I think the saying is - 'You Snooze, You Lose!'.

If it's any consolation, I would still say that at $1000 it is still very worthwhile - it may take some of you a bit of time to save the money but it is an excellent package.

I am saving for a high end kit - looking at some DW kits, the Sonor SQ system and the Yamaha Recording custom at the moment, however I am absolutely ecstatic that I bought this package rather than putting the money towards the kit (which was a dilemma I had a few months back).

Great kits will always be available, investment in your drumming education is best done as early as possible. I'm just gutted that this package wasn't available 10 years ago (though back then there is no way I could have afforded it.)

I've just read my review (see earlier post) and having played the package more in depth in the last few weeks and really haven't done it the justice it deserves. Hopefully i'll do a more in depth review at some point - I just don't have the time at the moment.

Phil

Thanks Phil....I am glad you are getting tons of out the package.

[drumcat]

I just ordered The Drumming System, and can't wait to check it out and get started!

It's always fun to sit down at the kit, and have fun jamming along to songs.
However, lately that's all I've been doing. I need to get serious, and make better
use of my practice time.

I think when you are trying to learn on your own, you need to have access to the right
material. Then you have to put in the time to actually practice.

I've been waiting for a course like The Drumming System.
I plan on using the Practice Routine Generator to add the structure
that I need.

My goal overall as a drummer is to have fun. However, I do have other
goals for my drumming future. One is to play in a band, and the other
is to become a drum teacher.

Railroad Media rocks for providing a discount on The Drumming System!
The cost of music lessons here in New Jersey is at least $75 - $125 a month.
On top of that my local Drum Shop just closed down.

The Drumming System looks like just what this drummer needs to make
my music dreams come true.

This post has been edited by DrumCat6: 22 August 2009 - 01:25 PM

[drummer john]

Quote

Unfortunately I think the saying is - 'You Snooze, You Lose!'.

If it's any consolation, I would still say that at $1000 it is still very worthwhile - it may take some of you a bit of time to save the money but it is an excellent package.

I am saving for a high end kit - looking at some DW kits, the Sonor SQ system and the Yamaha Recording custom at the moment, however I am absolutely ecstatic that I bought this package rather than putting the money towards the kit (which was a dilemma I had a few months back).

Well, Phil, I don't mean to throw a wet blanket over your euphoria, and I'm glad for your success in life and that you have enough money to do whatever you want to do, but a lot of us here on FDL don't, so don't try to rub our face in the dirt just because we're not as well off as you are, ok?

Quote

If it's any consolation, I would still say that at $1000 it is still very worthwhile - it may take some of you a bit of time to save the money but it is an excellent package.

I can't believe you actually posted this statement - what a joke!

This post has been edited by drummer john: 22 August 2009 - 04:13 PM

[Poco Askew]

I don't think Phil was rubbing any body's nose in anything. He was pointing out, even though he is trying to save for a dream kit, he was glad he spent the money on TDS, even if it means the kit is further off. I'm also not sure why you think its a joke for someone to feel TDS is worth it's price.

Jared may not appreciate this, but from my experience with RRM products, I think TDS will go on sale again - someday. It may not be $200, but it will probably be less than the full price. If it is of interest to you, start setting aside $$ now so if I'm correct, you can take advantage of it.

Some people were crying BS because they didn't believe RRM could/would sell TDS for it's full $1K price, and the intro price was not really a legitimate sale. Now people are upset because RRM is selling it for the full price and it turned out the into price was a great deal. I guess no matter what they do, RRM can't make everyone happy. Remember it isn't their fault you didn't have the money to buy it at intro. I would be grateful for all the stuff they make available for absolutely nothing, zip, $0.00, and not complain about the stuff you don't get for free.

I'll climb off my soapbox now.

[Blinddrummer]

Poco Askew, on Aug 22 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

I would be grateful for all the stuff they make available for absolutely nothing, zip, $0.00, and not complain about the stuff you don't get for free.

The man's got a point.

[drummer john]

Poco Askew, on Aug 22 2009, 05:57 PM, said:

I don't think Phil was rubbing any body's nose in anything. He was pointing out, even though he is trying to save for a dream kit, he was glad he spent the money on TDS, even if it means the kit is further off. I'm also not sure why you think its a joke for someone to feel TDS is worth it's price.

Phil and I have already straightened this out. If you think it's worth $1000, fine - personally, I don't -I DO think it's worth every penny of $200 though.

Quote

Jared may not appreciate this, but from my experience with RRM products, I think TDS will go on sale again - someday. It may not be $200, but it will probably be less than the full price. If it is of interest to you, start setting aside $$ now so if I'm correct, you can take advantage of it.

I'm sure TDS will go on sale again, even though they said it wouldn't.

Quote

Some people were crying BS because they didn't believe RRM could/would sell TDS for it's full $1K price, and the intro price was not really a legitimate sale. Now people are upset because RRM is selling it for the full price and it turned out the into price was a great deal. I guess no matter what they do, RRM can't make everyone happy. Remember it isn't their fault you didn't have the money to buy it at intro

.
Well, that hurt, Poco - I don't expect RRM to make everybody"happy"- I was disappointed that RRM took it off sale so quickly without giving many folks a chance to buy it, though. Jared told me to contact Dave at RRM about TDS, so that's what I"ll do.

Quote

I would be grateful for all the stuff they make available for absolutely nothing, zip, $0.00, and not complain about the stuff you don't get for free.

Who said I wasn't grateful for all the free stuff on FDL? - not me. I think it's the greatest drum site on the Internet and has encouraged guys like me to get another set of drums after not playing for years. The first thing I do in the morning after I pour myself a cup of coffee is to fire up my "confuser" and go to FDL's forums and check out the new posts to see whats a happen' with other drummers. FDL has a wealth of FREE resources for any drummer at any stage of drumming - don't imply that I'm not grateful -I'm extremely grateful for FDL

This post has been edited by drummer john: 22 August 2009 - 08:15 PM

[drummer john]

Ok, Let me clear the air about something right now. I just got a PM from DrummingPhil. I'm NOT going to divulge what was in the PM, because it's private, but I will say I do not have any animosity towards Phil in any way. As a matter of fact, I appreciate his PM and am going to reply to it as soon as I post this reply. I am sorry if I took what he said earlier the wrong way.

This post has been edited by drummer john: 22 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

[Poco Askew]

drummer john, on Aug 22 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

I'm sure TDS will go on sale again, even though they said it wouldn't.

I don't remember seeing RRM say TDS would never go on sale again.

drummer john, on Aug 22 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

Well, that hurt, Poco - I don't expect RRM to make everybody"happy"- I was disappointed that RRM took it off sale so quickly without giving many folks a chance to buy it, though.

I hope you know me well enough to know I don't try to hurt FDL members. But like Rick and Jared, I'm a business person. I create a business plan and I try to follow it to improve my chance of surviving in a sucky economy. I assume RRM plans their sales based on sound business strategy. I'm sure you don't think its easy to make a buck by being in business. Over 50% of all new business fail in the first year and 90% fail in the first five years. How many days should RRM have kept TDS on sale this time around? Can we on the outside really give a meaningful answer? We don't have the info to make an informed guess (even if it was any of our business). There are variables like inventory levels, cash flow requirements, etc. that are no concern of ours, but are the life's blood of any business. I'm disappointed more members didn't get an opportunity to buy it at $200, but I understand it had to end and sometimes the timing is not what the business wants, but what has to be due to reasons not in their control.
Regardless, I'm sorry if I hurt you. I was not aiming my rant at you specifically.

drummer john, on Aug 22 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

Who said I wasn't grateful for all the free stuff on FDL? - not me. I think it's the greatest drum site on the Internet and has encouraged guys like me to get another set of drums after not playing for years. The first thing I do in the morning after I pour myself a cup of coffee is to fire up my "confuser" and go to FDL's forums and check out the new posts to see whats a happen' with other drummers. FDL has a wealth of FREE resources for any drummer at any stage of drumming - don't imply that I'm not grateful -I'm extremely grateful for FDL

I agree FDL is awesome. The only reason I brought it up is because of the tone of your post belittling the value of TDS. You are certainly free to express you opinion, just as I am. IMO, showing appreciation for what we get for free doesn't include slamming the value of their newest non-free offering. The scope and size of TDS is unprecedented. It had to be a huge amount of work and risk for RRM and without RRM's continued success you can be sure there won't be an FDL. TDS may not be for everyone, but considering what it covers, I think the value is certainly there. I could take lessons locally for several months, or buy it on payments and work from it for several years.
Again, my apologies. I probably over-reacted, but I know how difficult it is to start a business and try to grow it against the huge national competitors. Beyond that, I think RRM products are as good a value as anyting out there with very few exceptions.

[drummer john]

Poco Askew, on Aug 22 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

I don't remember seeing RRM say TDS would never go on sale again..

I thought I saw it somewhere in RRM's advertising -if they didn't say it, I'll take it back.

Quote

I hope you know me well enough to know I don't try to hurt FDL members. But like Rick and Jared, I'm a business person. I create a business plan and I try to follow it to improve my chance of surviving in a sucky economy. I assume RRM plans their sales based on sound business strategy. I'm sure you don't think its easy to make a buck by being in business. Over 50% of all new business fail in the first year and 90% fail in the first five years. How many days should RRM have kept TDS on sale this time around?

Ok, but I think they could have kept it on sale a little longer - the way they promoted it came over to me as a hard sell, "do or die" senero.

Quote

Can we on the outside really give a meaningful answer? We don't have the info to make an informed guess (even if it was any of our business). There are variables like inventory levels, cash flow requirements, etc. that are no concern of ours, but are the life's blood of any business

.
Yea, so...

Quote

I'm disappointed more members didn't get an opportunity to buy it at $200, but I understand it had to end and sometimes the timing is not what the business wants, but what has to be due to reasons not in their control.

I told Jared in my previous post that in a bad economy such as ours, it's not wise to make any product, no matter how good it is, unattainable, and at $1000 per package, it is unattainable for most folks.

Quote

Regardless, I'm sorry if I hurt you. I was not aiming my rant at you specifically.

Apology accepted.

Quote

I agree FDL is awesome. The only reason I brought it up is because of the tone of your post belittling the value of TDS. You are certainly free to express you opinion, just as I am. IMO, showing appreciation for what we get for free doesn't include slamming the value of their newest non-free offering.

I'm not belittling the value of TDS in any way, just because I don't think it should sell for $1000.

Quote

The scope and size of TDS is unprecedented. It had to be a huge amount of work and risk for RRM and without RRM's continued success you can be sure there won't be an FDL. TDS may not be for everyone, but considering what it covers, I think the value is certainly there. I could take lessons locally for several months, or buy it on payments and work from it for several years.

I agree 100% - I think The Drumming System is an assume, professional product taught by an assume teacher and I hope I can buy it someday at a reasonable price.

Quote

Again, my apologies. I probably over-reacted, but I know how difficult it is to start a business and try to grow it against the huge national competitors. Beyond that, I think RRM products are as good a value as anyting out there with very few exceptions.

No problemo, Poco.

This post has been edited by drummer john: 22 August 2009 - 09:23 PM

[Jared Falk]

Did we say it would never go on special after the launch? No.

Will the Drumming System go on special again at some point? Yes.

When will it go on special again? We have no plans at this point in time.

For now, if you really want a Drumming System package, and missed the launch, please contact Dave (support@railroadmedia.com). We truly want to do our best to please ALL people.

The reason behind the $997 price is WAY less than you'd pay if you took private lessons with a pro drummer like Mike. If you took weekly lessons with a pro drummer like Mike it would cost around $2400 per year (I know this as I have paid this amount and more in the past). This is 20 years of Mike's knowledge packed into these lessons, it's hard to put any sort of value on it.

[Prog70]

Sorry to change the...not so great...mood but I'm wondering,
Is Open Handed Playing Covered in the System ?

[Jared Falk]

Prog70, on Aug 23 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

Sorry to change the...not so great...mood but I'm wondering,
Is Open Handed Playing Covered in the System ?

Mike doesn't play open-handed but you can easily just play all the exercises open-handed. What sort of instruction are you looking for exactly, as it pertains to open-handed playing?

[drummingphil]

Crikey - i've been away for the weekend and come back to the proverbial storm!

Reading my earlier post I can see that the statement 'You Snooze, You lose!' may have been a little insensitive and taken the wrong way by anyone who couldn't afford the package at the discounted price - John, I got your PM - no worries.

Apologies to anyone else who took it the wrong way.

Also - whilst I and many will not think that $1000 is a good price point (and for information, I would NEVER have paid that price before seeing and using the package), my viewpoint has changed now that I have experienced it and realised what a vast drumming encyclopaedia it really is. The discounted price is unbelievable value but I do honestly feel that the $1000 price point still represents a good investment.

[drumcat]

drummingphil, on Aug 23 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

Also - whilst I and many will not think that $1000 is a good price point (and for information, I would NEVER have paid that price before seeing and using the package), my viewpoint has changed now that I have experienced it and realised what a vast drumming encyclopaedia it really is. The discounted price is unbelievable value but I do honestly feel that the $1000 price point still represents a good investment.

I can only speak from my experience, but I know a years worth of drum lessons here costs anywhere from $900 to $1500 depending on where you take them.

Yes, $1000 is a lot to shell out at once. The financing Railroad Media offers should help.
I picked up the Drumming System before the offer ended. If you don't have the extra
cash, then just use the FDL site until you can afford it. Who knows, maybe it will go on
sale again. I didn't have the extra cash when the system was first released. I signed up
for the e-mail notification list, and waited until it arrived back in stock.

This post has been edited by DrumCat6: 23 August 2009 - 01:23 PM

[Poco Askew]

The price for drum lessons is pretty consistent where I live. They typically run $25 per half hour. So $1000 will buy you 20 hours of one-on-one instruction. To be fair, most of the lessons run a little long. But at the same time, some of my lessons were not much over 30 minutes, while others had an interruption, and all had a little "small talk", which is to be expected, but didn't help my drumming. Let's say you might realistically expect to get up to 25 hours of time with an instructor where I live.

Now compare 25 hours of one-on-one instruction to this System's 30+ hours of video and workbook training. Then you can add the value of the play-along CDs, Practice Routine Generator, and other guides.

[Jared Falk]

We never really created the Drumming System to be a complete replacement for live lessons...As having a private drum instructor is a real advantage. However, with the busy lives that most of us lead, it is hard to schedule in weekly lessons as well as afford lessons every single week. Also, certain areas don't have any qualified teachers, this is another place where the Drumming System is perfect!

I think the Drumming System works best n conjunction with a teacher. Maybe study on your own and take a lesson every 4 - 8 weeks to have another set of eyes critiquing you.

If having a live teacher isn't possible at all, then the Drumming System is the best thing for you IMO.

Personally, I have just used online/DVD lessons for myself the last couple years, taking some spot lessons here and there with different teachers. I'll setup a mirror when I'm practicing so I can check my technique...This is the way that works best for me...