[realscotch]

[quote name='Tekker' timestamp='1331802163' post='194765']
I don't think that is true at all...Just knowing how I was when I started playing music at 15 years old, I probably wouldn't be playing music to this day if I would have had some boring stuffy teacher that made practicing a chore instead of fun. So who's to say that I wasn't cut out to play? Because, here I am still playing music some 15 years later. If it's not fun and you don't enjoy what you are doing then you will probably loose the "WANT" to play.

If playing to music helps keep you motivated and allows you to enjoy your craft, then do it! I started out playing to music right away...I never had any lessons, I was never taught proper technique, I didn't start out playing rudiments, etc. I learned by playing to music. So I don't think it is going to kill anyone to spend some of your practice time playing along with music. Who cares if you can't keep up exactly with the coordination, or if you get off time? If anything this will likely motivate you that much more to practice so that you can keep up with the music.

Do whatever you need to do to make sure that you enjoying playing and stick with it. That will make you a better drummer in the long run than if you get bored and quit.


You are really not getting what I'm saying. I've never said not to play along to music. I did it, every drummer does it.

In this particular instance, we are talking 3 weeks. At 3 weeks, you shouldn't be playing along to music. You have no real coordination to talk about, probably aren't comfortable with holding the sticks yet, so, no, you shouldn't be playing to music.

At 3 weeks, you are lucky to be doing the drummers version of Chopsticks.

[Astromar]

I never said not to work on your basic fundamentals either.

I think it's very important to keep with your fundamentals and to get your basic skills.

But you also need some fun to keep your motivation because motivation isn't a thing you naturally have. You have to keep renewing it or you'll stop all together.

And Realscotch I know and understand what your saying but even at 3 weeks you should be able to play a basic rock beat and a couple of simple fills so why not reinforce them by playing them to music?

And I'm not a complete beginner either because with my year of playing drumset I've also been playing percussion for my school for 4 years and I've also been through one marching season so far on bass. And I had a hard time keeping my motivation up because I didn't play to any music during my practices I just worked on fundamentals. Then I started drumset then a month later I started playing to music and I had the time of my life and my motivation skyrocketed and I didn't suck on the song either.

People need to use every opportunity they can to raise their motivation but I'm not saying to use up all your practice time on playing to music because you need your fundamentals alot more.

[cogwheel]

realscotch, on 15 March 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

In this particular instance, we are talking 3 weeks. At 3 weeks, you shouldn't be playing along to music. You have no real coordination to talk about, probably aren't comfortable with holding the sticks yet, so, no, you shouldn't be playing to music.

At 3 weeks, you are lucky to be doing the drummers version of Chopsticks.

While I agree with the general sentiment you're trying to get across, I think you're taking it to a bit of a cynical extreme. It seems like the point you really want to make is not to sacrifice structured practice for playing along with music. But you're coming across like "there is one proper way to learn drums and if you don't do that you're crippling your future self." Sure, there may be a set of teaching/practice techniques that are statistically optimal for getting the greatest number of people the greatest improvement in skill in the shortest amount of time. That doesn't mean that it is the best route for every individual.

And it also seems like you're not accounting for different learning styles/speeds and different innate abilities. I was able to carry a rock beat with a syncopated bass line within the first few minutes of sitting behind my e-kit. I'm not claiming I had any technique or the best timing in the world, but that seems like more than "the drummer's version of Chopsticks." Even if that is the drummer's version of Chopsticks, what's wrong with trying to put that to music?

Finally, it seems you're assuming that everyone learning the drums has a similar set of goals/motivations. You talk a lot about end results (auditions, playing with bands, learning correct things sooner rather than later etc.) without taking the person's actual desires into account. I want to learn the drums because I have fun playing the drums. If it's going to take me an extra decade to get as good as I might if I dedicated an entire year to learning nothing but rudiments & coordination, then so be it.

Just to reiterate, I don't think these are the actual points you're trying to make, but it's how I think you're coming across and why i think people are arguing with you.

@ the OP: given the above, I think the answer entirely depends on your goals. If your goal is to get as good as possible as quickly as possible, then you shouldn't spend your practice time this early on on playing to music. Play to music when you would otherwise not be practicing. If you just want to learn to play for fun or you aren't concerned with your rate of improvement, then do whatever you want imo. There are many happy middles between those extremes.

There are also ways to turn playing with music into practice. For instance, there are some specific songs in Rock Band I like to play to practice single stroke rolls, paradiddles, and such.

This post has been edited by cogwheel: 15 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

[realscotch]

cogwheel, on 15 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

While I agree with the general sentiment you're trying to get across, I think you're taking it to a bit of a cynical extreme. It seems like the point you really want to make is not to sacrifice structured practice for playing along with music. But you're coming across like "there is one proper way to learn drums and if you don't do that you're crippling your future self." Sure, there may be a set of teaching/practice techniques that are statistically optimal for getting the greatest number of people the greatest improvement in skill in the shortest amount of time. That doesn't mean that it is the best route for every individual.

And it also seems like you're not accounting for different learning styles/speeds and different innate abilities. I was able to carry a rock beat with a syncopated bass line within the first few minutes of sitting behind my e-kit. I'm not claiming I had any technique or the best timing in the world, but that seems like more than "the drummer's version of Chopsticks." Even if that is the drummer's version of Chopsticks, what's wrong with trying to put that to music?

Finally, it seems you're assuming that everyone learning the drums has a similar set of goals/motivations. You talk a lot about end results (auditions, playing with bands, learning correct things sooner rather than later etc.) without taking the person's actual desires into account. I want to learn the drums because I have fun playing the drums. If it's going to take me an extra decade to get as good as I might if I dedicated an entire year to learning nothing but rudiments & coordination, then so be it.

Just to reiterate, I don't think these are the actual points you're trying to make, but it's how I think you're coming across and why i think people are arguing with you.

@ the OP: given the above, I think the answer entirely depends on your goals. If your goal is to get as good as possible as quickly as possible, then you shouldn't spend your practice time this early on on playing to music. Play to music when you would otherwise not be practicing. If you just want to learn to play for fun or you aren't concerned with your rate of improvement, then do whatever you want imo. There are many happy middles between those extremes.

There are also ways to turn playing with music into practice. For instance, there are some specific songs in Rock Band I like to play to practice single stroke rolls, paradiddles, and such.

I don't know if I would call it cynical, but you are probably right in your assumption on how I look at things.

I always have felt that if you play a instrument, that you want to be as good as you can possibly be. The thing is, not everybody looks at it that way. I've seen so many half-a**** musicians out there that reached a certain level and are happy to stay there. It's never been my approach.

The people that I worked with were always trying to improve their skills. We played a lot of styles of music and they had to be on their game or they were gone.

Anyway, play to music the first day you get your drums, it's not going to affect my approach to how I play, which is to try to do something different every time I play, and learn something new.

[Tekker]

realscotch, on 15 March 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

You are really not getting what I'm saying. I've never said not to play along to music. I did it, every drummer does it.

In this particular instance, we are talking 3 weeks. At 3 weeks, you shouldn't be playing along to music. You have no real coordination to talk about, probably aren't comfortable with holding the sticks yet, so, no, you shouldn't be playing to music.

At 3 weeks, you are lucky to be doing the drummers version of Chopsticks.

I know you didn't say to "never" play to music (otherwise what's the point in playing an instrument if you're never going to play with music?) but my point was that I believe you should play to music even at an early stage if that is something you want to do and enjoy doing it. As I stated before, I didn't have anyone to teach me the basics, so I started out learning entirely from music. While I certainly wouldn't recommend learning by only playing to music as I did, I certainly don't think there is any problem with making playing to music part of your practice routine in addition to working on the basics and technique away from music.

-tkr

[einarabelc5]

It's in the practice routine generator offered at drumlessons.com, play rudiments, play beats, play fills, play 4 way coordination, play music. I'd say once you have certain base, use the music to learn how to apply those things you've learned in the "real" purpose of the drum. Also, use it to get feedback on what you've learned. I would call playing music as you learn: quiz time.

[realscotch]

Tekker, on 15 March 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

I know you didn't say to "never" play to music (otherwise what's the point in playing an instrument if you're never going to play with music?) but my point was that I believe you should play to music even at an early stage if that is something you want to do and enjoy doing it. As I stated before, I didn't have anyone to teach me the basics, so I started out learning entirely from music. While I certainly wouldn't recommend learning by only playing to music as I did, I certainly don't think there is any problem with making playing to music part of your practice routine in addition to working on the basics and technique away from music.

-tkr

You learned like I learned. All I had was records and American Bandstand.