[Poco Askew]

Fitzleking, on 02 December 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

yep

Care to share what it is? It might make it easier for members to offer help.

[Fitzleking]

Poco Askew, on 02 December 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

Care to share what it is? It might make it easier for members to offer help.

When I went to my music shop, the salesman suggest me to take this one http://ca.yamaha.com...6cx/?mode=model

or this one: http://ca.yamaha.com...4cx/?mode=model

[Poco Askew]

Fitzleking, on 02 December 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

When I went to my music shop, the salesman suggest me to take this one http://ca.yamaha.com...6cx/?mode=model

or this one: http://ca.yamaha.com...4cx/?mode=model

I'm no expert on this stuff but from what I can see those mixers do not offer digital output and they don't output the 8 channels you want to record.

[Fitzleking]

Poco Askew, on 02 December 2011 - 07:58 PM, said:

I'm no expert on this stuff but from what I can see those mixers do not offer digital output and they don't output the 8 channels you want to record.

I looked at this and yes it has an output

[Poco Askew]

Fitzleking, on 02 December 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

I looked at this and yes it has an output

Yes, it has an output. But you said you wanted to record 8 microphones. If you want to do all your mixing prior to recording and hope you got everything correct, then a mixer will work. If you want to record all 8 tracks individually so you can mix, EQ, edit, add effects, etc., then an audio interface is a better bet, IMO. That way you can mix and re-mix, record and re-record, edit and add effects over and over until you have exactly what you want. A single output from a mixer into a computer is very limiting as a recording solution.

Is there a reason you don't want to use an audio interface and DAW? Seems like it would be easier, cheaper and more effective.

[Fitzleking]

Poco Askew, on 02 December 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Yes, it has an output. But you said you wanted to record 8 microphones. If you want to do all you mixing prior to recording and hope you got everything correct, then a mixer will work. If you want to record all 8 tracks individually so you can mix, EQ, edit, add effects, etc., then an audio interface is a better bet, IMO. That way you can mix and re-mix, record and re-record until you have exactly what you want. A single output from a mixer into a computer is very limiting as a recording solution.

About what I learned earlier, an interface can't do what I want. The salesman told me to plug the mics in the mixer, plug the mixer into my computer, then a software reccord the sound from the mixer. But he told me to see if my soundcard is good enough to reccord because if it isn't good enough, I'll can't reccord. So that's what I'm looking for

[Jimbo]

The Yam mixers are good, the mic pre amps are prety good from when I have used them I usually use the M7CL but I would think the preamps will be similar.

The MG series from memory come in a USB and non USB versions with 2 out mix down through the USB, so you can either record stereo with A and B being left and right, or split things up, but you will only get 2 out. Depends if thats a problem or not, if you are wanting to record a track then you can always put a scratch track down then record each part in individually.

Your sound card is totally irrelevent in the whole thing if the audio is going in on USB or Firewire, you will also be able to play back through the mixer as well, the time when the computer can become a problem is when you are playing multiple chanels in cubase with effects, that is purely down to the processor though and if it can keep up. Stack it full of RAM, usually does the trick

If you need to record all the chanels individually and since you want a mixer for live performances instead of a dedicated audio interface look at the Alesis MultiMix USB2.0 or firewire, these send all channels individually at the same time (the older USB1 version only does the 2 channel mixdown),

Off the top of my head here are some mixers I know about with PC interface, if its usefull, might not be 100% right but just a few :
Phonic Helix firewire = budget but multi channel recording
Alesis Multimix USB2.0 = multi channel recording (16 channel mixer = 16 chanels into your DAW e.g. cubase)
Alesis Multimix USB1.0 = 2 channel recording from main mix
Yam MG-USB = 2 channel recording from main mix
Yam 01V = multi track (pricey)
Behringer XENYX = 2 channel recording from main mix, there is a UFX version coming out soon with multi track recording
Presonus StudioLives = multi track recording (pricey)
Mackie Onyx firewire series = multi track
Tascam Digital mixers = multi track recording (you will need a mortgage)

If you want to use a normal analogue mixer with no computer audio interface built in, then you will need an AUX in on whatever you are recording on, A microphone in is no good as its the wrong impedence and dynamics will all be to cock. Theres pleanty of USB sound cards out there though you can use if you are using a laptop, if you go for a known brand you cant go far wrong.

Hope it helps anyway

[Poco Askew]

Fitzleking, on 02 December 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

About what I learned earlier, an interface can't do what I want. The salesman told me to plug the mics in the mixer, plug the mixer into my computer, then a software reccord the sound from the mixer. But he told me to see if my soundcard is good enough to reccord because if it isn't good enough, I'll can't reccord. So that's what I'm looking for

I guess I don't understand what you want to do. An audio interface will let you plug in microphones and record each track individually on your computer. You can mix, EQ, and add effects like you do with a mixer. Each drum can be kept discreet for unlimited tweaking. Then you can mix down everything into mono or stereo (like with a mixer). Since the audio is sent digitally to your computer, there is no loss of quality and your sound card doesn't matter.

A mixer mixes multiple microphones down into fewer tracks - usually stereo - that's the whole point of having a mixer. The problem then is, if you want to fix the sound of a tom, cymbal, or snare after everything is recorded, you can't. It is all "lumped together". No matter how "good" your sound card is, you will not be able to record and edit 8 tracks on your computer. Stereo, yes. But that pretty much sux for a home studio.

Please explain what an audio interface can't do that you want. If you want to play live with a band into amplifiers, a mixer makes sense. For recording, no so much.

[einarabelc5]

I think this is another thread that's a victim of the Internet era. People spew out information and they don't even think about the other person who's reading their questions. Too much speed, zero reflection. That's what happens when you use too much Facebook and Tweeter

If I can decode what the author is trying to say he wants to connect the analog audio output of the mixer(which seems he's already convinced its his solution because the store employee said so) into his soundcard but he's worried about the typical soundcard problems. Notice that the thread includes the word PC. That made me immediately think the ASIO driver usability and latency might be the author's concern. What it might be more ironic is that if that's the case, he might not even realize that the external USB/Firewire audio interface is his best shot at eliminating those problems.
The Windows driver model for generic soundcards is NOT good for recording. That's why there's something called ASIO4all that you might try to use to alleviate the problem. But that also has its own configuration problems.

In short I might be COMPLETELY wrong since no one has made a point clear so far in this thread but I think that if I understood correctly the concern is the soundcard.
From my previous experience there are 3 factors to consider when measuring sound cards:

Sampling Rate (KHZ)
Bit depth(bps)
Latency (ain't that one a bitch-specially in Windows) It totally depends on the driver model use. AVOID WDM!!!

In short get an ASIO sound card.
There are both PCI and USB/Firewire soundcards that come with ASIO drivers directly from the factory and ARE MEANT for recording.

For PCI check zzsounds.com and use recording soundcard as a search option. For external a simple amazon search should yield results.
The author should start by getting out of abstractions and explicitly and specifically posting what he wants to do first instead of having his forum co-members figuring out what he's trying to say or machine gunning answers in the dark to have all bases covered.

BTW, what Poco and Jimbo(at the end of his post) are talking about are exactly the same thing.

This post has been edited by einarabelc5: 03 December 2011 - 12:29 AM

[TheYonderGod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but latency is not a problem unless you're monitoring it as you are playing.
If you are dead set on using a mixer that outputs to a line level or mic input or whatever instead of a interface like Poco is suggesting, you don't NEED a really good sound card, but it will improve the sound quality if the mics and mixer aren't bottle-necking the quality. I don't know about recording enough to know if they will or not but I would guess that they will be unless you get really high end mics or if your onboard sound card is exceptionally horrible.

[warboy]

Fitzleking, on 02 December 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

About what I learned earlier, an interface can't do what I want. The salesman told me to plug the mics in the mixer, plug the mixer into my computer, then a software reccord the sound from the mixer. But he told me to see if my soundcard is good enough to reccord because if it isn't good enough, I'll can't reccord. So that's what I'm looking for

The only thing an audio interface can't do that a mixer can is have zero latency for live mixing. But the other side of that is an audio allows you to create a separate channel for each input on the interface when you plug it into a computer. That allows you to tweak each channel individually and trust me, it is definitely worth it to get an audio interface if you are at all serious about recording anything. Mixers are designed to have mics go into it, and then for the mixer to go into speakers at that point. Not a sound card. To tell you the truth, neither are audio interfaces for that matter. most of those go into firewire or USB.

I think whoever told you how to do this at the store had his signal routing all screwed up. Unless you are going to be doing a 50/50 of live and studio recording, get an interface.

[Poco Askew]

einarabelc5, on 03 December 2011 - 12:27 AM, said:

In short I might be COMPLETELY wrong since no one has made a point clear so far in this thread but I think that if I understood correctly the concern is the soundcard.
From my previous experience there are 3 factors to consider when measuring sound cards:

Sampling Rate (KHZ)
Bit depth(bps)
Latency (ain't that one a bitch-specially in Windows) It totally depends on the driver model use. AVOID WDM!!!

In short get an ASIO sound card.
There are both PCI and USB/Firewire soundcards that come with ASIO drivers directly from the factory and ARE MEANT for recording.

I completely agree with you IF you are talking about a digital signal. But the mixers he wants are not digital. When bringing in analog signals, the sound card shouldn't be a factor, nor is sample rate, bit depth, etc. The big issue is getting 8 analog signals: 1) out of a mixer, 2) into the PC for recording. It is possible the 4 group outs on the biggest mixer he linked to are all stereo / two track. In that case you probably can get all 8 mics output.

My concern is, the OP is set on a certain piece of equipment (or type of equipment) and is making a big mistake in his selection. I don't understand all the factors in his decision but I also think maybe the salesperson who sold him on the mixer idea doesn't know what he's talking about.

I also agree with you that more information is needed to make meaningful recommendations, but very little is being offered. I think I've done as much as I can until the OP provides it.

[GaryM95]

[Tekker]

As has been said before, if this is only for recording purposes then an interface is by far the best bet. If the store guy told you that you cannot record multiple mics with an audio interface then I would not go back to him for anymore advice as he was probably a used car salesman and is simply trying to sell you a lemon and squeeze more money out of you!

Check out the Tascam US1800 interface. It has 8 XLR/mic inputs and 6 1/4" inputs which can all be used simultaneously for 16 channels of simultaneous recording, it connects to your computer via USB (so your current sound card won't be used at all), and it costs under $300.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASUS1800

Then for recording/mixing software, Reaper is amazing and costs only $60.
http://reaper.fm/

For recording purposes that will do exactly what you need.

-tkr

[Poco Askew]

Welcome back, Tekker!

[Tekker]

Poco Askew, on 03 December 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

Welcome back, Tekker!

Thanks Poco!

-tkr

[warboy]

Tekker, on 03 December 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

Then for recording/mixing software, Reaper is amazing and costs only $60.
http://reaper.fm/
-tkr

That unit actually comes with Cubase limited which is pretty much good enough for any home recording use in my experience.

[einarabelc5]

Poco Askew, on 03 December 2011 - 06:36 AM, said:

I completely agree with you IF you are talking about a digital signal. But the mixers he wants are not digital. When bringing in analog signals, the sound card shouldn't be a factor, nor is sample rate, bit depth, etc. The big issue is getting 8 analog signals: 1) out of a mixer, 2) into the PC for recording. It is possible the 4 group outs on the biggest mixer he linked to are all stereo / two track. In that case you probably can get all 8 mics output.

My concern is, the OP is set on a certain piece of equipment (or type of equipment) and is making a big mistake in his selection. I don't understand all the factors in his decision but I also think maybe the salesperson who sold him on the mixer idea doesn't know what he's talking about.

I also agree with you that more information is needed to make meaningful recommendations, but very little is being offered. I think I've done as much as I can until the OP provides it.

I'm intrigued.. What do you mean by IF the signal is digital? As far as I know once the signal gets on your PC it IS being sampled by your card, which must have AT LEAST twice the sampling rate of the highest analog frequency you want to register to avoid Nyquist effect. Modern everyday computers are ALL digital.

Can you provide an example of an analog sound processing system? Do you mean the mixer? That would be the NO latency processor.

[Poco Askew]

einarabelc5, on 03 December 2011 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm intrigued.. What do you mean by IF the signal is digital? As far as I know once the signal gets on your PC it IS being sampled by your card, which must have AT LEAST twice the sampling rate of the highest analog frequency you want to register to avoid Nyquist effect. Modern everyday computers are ALL digital.

Can you provide an example of an analog sound processing system? Do you mean the mixer? That would be the NO latency processor.

Sorry - yes. I wasn't clear/correct with my terminology. Certainly all information on a PC is stored and processed digitally. When I said analog vs. digital signal, I meant the signal out of the mixer and into the PC. Still, when recording on a PC from an analog input, I've never heard of latency or other issues with any sound card. For live/real time playing, then you can end up with potential problems no matter the source. Again, I'm not expert on this stuff, but I have done a fair amount of recording stereo analog in on an old computer with a cheap sound card and not had problems. I notice latency and other issues when using MIDI in and VST samples in real time, but not with recording.

[Fitzleking]

Hi all,

I'm about to buy an audio interface to reccord my drumset. I need your requests. My local music store suggest me to get http://www.roland.co...ucts/en/FA-101/

I'm not sure of this model. Maybe it's just me but tell me if it could be good or give me another one to look for.

Thank you