[juanchorw]

hi the reason i started this post is very simple and direct, ive had my drumkit for about 3 years now and i have NEVER been able to tune the toms, not because of a bad drumkit but because of a sucker at tuning LOL, so basically what i wanted to know is if there is any way to make my toms sound as solid as the ones in this video, or do they sound like that because they are amplified via mics. if they DO can sound that way could anyone explain me how, exact drum heads to buy, tension, etc.
this is the link to the video


personally i would love mine to sound that way but if it is impossible then whats the nearest they could go and how
thank you!!

[Countcrankula]

Hey mate,

To me there seems to be two factors contributing to this tom sound. The mixing of the drums through the desk and of course tuning. The drums have been EQ'd using a mixing desk so any of the unwanted frequencies (sounds) the drum makes have been filtered out, giving the desired sound the drummer wanted. This can be a huge factor into what the finished sound is. In my experience with recording, you can tune your drums according to what you like but invariably the finished product will sound different. That can work for you though if your drums aren't sounding the best, an engineer can 'fix' those annoying harmonic frequencies coming from a drum:D

Tuning is also a HUGE influence on how the drum sounds (naturally), when the resonant and batter head are sympathetic to one another (vibrating at the same speed) I find you get a more 'solid' sound or a clear defined pitch coming from the drum. Someone might be able to correct me on this but I think he may be using Evans G2 coated or G plus batter heads (can't see the resonant:) I'd say the resonant head is thicker so he's getting a punchier sound. The same principle should apply to tuning low to tuning higher pitches, I sure there is a million ways people will tune there toms but I like to tune both heads to the same pitch, I find the tom responds to same tuning on both heads to give a clear defined sound. Tuning low toms can be tricky, mind boggling in fact! But tuning is an art form all into itself, spend the time mucking around with your toms, don't be afraid to experiment with the sounds you get from different pitches. Like everything else with this glorious instrument, the more you practice the better you get:) This guy was a great influence on my tuning so I hope this helps:



http://www.youtube.com/user/bobgatzen

Well thats my 2 cents, hope you get something out of my rambling;)
Good luck with your tuning!

[juanchorw]

Countcrankula, on 27 March 2011 - 06:38 PM, said:

Hey mate,

To me there seems to be two factors...

hey man thx for the info really helpful, because i was killing myself trying to get to that tone lol, so ill try my best to do as this guy on the video says!! thanks again!

[stevesmithfan]

Nice playing. I can't hear the toms very well in the mix, what little I do hear they sound flat IMO.

[Countcrankula]

juanchorw, on 27 March 2011 - 07:31 PM, said:

hey man thx for the info really helpful, because i was killing myself trying to get to that tone lol, so ill try my best to do as this guy on the video says!! thanks again!

No problems mate, hope it helps you out

[kyle102565]

you are going to HAVE to learn to tune your drums dude. it just takes time. i havent tuned my drums in over 2 months and a few need to be tweeked. my dog wont do it for me. yes it can be frustrating but not as much as playing an out of tune kit forever.
your also listening to Cobus on his own kit, doubt you'll get his sound unless you have his kit. i like a lil bit of ringy resonance in my toms.

This post has been edited by kyle102565: 28 March 2011 - 03:56 AM

[realscotch]

I wouldn't pay attention to Gatzen, his drums sound like crap.

Learn to tune your own drums, it's the only way you will get by when you start playing out and every room makes them sound different.

[juanchorw]

realscotch, on 28 March 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

I wouldn't pay attention to Gatzen, his drums sound like crap.

Learn to tune your own drums, it's the only way you will get by when you start playing out and every room makes them sound different.

yeah, thats something ive learned about the room, it definitely makes a diference whether u tune it in an open space or a closed one... so yeah i have to learn to tune them by myself LOL, but first i have to buy good drum heads, because currently i have original pearl heads all of them the basic only one of them is a protone LOL!
any suggestion about what drumhead to buy? i was thinking of coated ambassador for the snare as it has worked out for me now, and pinstripe ebony for the rest of the tums, or do u recommend me coated for the toms too? suggestions accepted!!! thx!

[Countcrankula]

realscotch, on 28 March 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

I wouldn't pay attention to Gatzen, his drums sound like crap.

Learn to tune your own drums, it's the only way you will get by when you start playing out and every room makes them sound different.

I understand what you are saying about the tom sound at the end of the video, but the mechanics are there for someone LEARNING how to tune drum heads. I've incorporated the same technique he uses, and my toms sound fine, the video was used as an example. I agree that you have to learn to tune yourself, the more you muck around with tuning the better you get. Such a contentious subject with drummers though, everyone has their way of tuning.

[realscotch]

juanchorw, on 28 March 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

yeah, thats something ive learned about the room, it definitely makes a diference whether u tune it in an open space or a closed one... so yeah i have to learn to tune them by myself LOL, but first i have to buy good drum heads, because currently i have original pearl heads all of them the basic only one of them is a protone LOL!
any suggestion about what drumhead to buy? i was thinking of coated ambassador for the snare as it has worked out for me now, and pinstripe ebony for the rest of the tums, or do u recommend me coated for the toms too? suggestions accepted!!! thx!

I'm not a fan of this guy. I find it much ado about nothing.

I prefer my toms a little more open. Don't like the sound of his snare at all.

Just put Aquarian Super 2's on my set. They seem to work well with my drums (old Ludwigs circa 1970), and I use a Diplomat on my snare.

[realscotch]

Countcrankula, on 28 March 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

I understand what you are saying about the tom sound at the end of the video, but the mechanics are there for someone LEARNING how to tune drum heads. I've incorporated the same technique he uses, and my toms sound fine, the video was used as an example. I agree that you have to learn to tune yourself, the more you muck around with tuning the better you get. Such a contentious subject with drummers though, everyone has their way of tuning.

His whole set sounds like crap.

Tuning is personal preference, and being that each room's acoustics change the sound of drums, the only way you learn is by doing it.

I liked my drums to sound a certain way when I was playing out. Now that I'm retired, I've added more drums and mess with tuning more (different heads etc). Some like how my drums sound, some don't. I don't lose any sleep one way or the other.

[Countcrankula]

realscotch, on 28 March 2011 - 11:52 PM, said:

His whole set sounds like crap.

Tuning is personal preference, and being that each room's acoustics change the sound of drums, the only way you learn is by doing it.

I liked my drums to sound a certain way when I was playing out. Now that I'm retired, I've added more drums and mess with tuning more (different heads etc). Some like how my drums sound, some don't. I don't lose any sleep one way or the other.

Like you said, personal preference. The acoustics within a room will impact on the drum sound, drum heads are another factor. I agree with what your saying, only trying to emphasize the same point you are....experiment around with different drum heads, different pitches and find out what you like. You don't find any of what Bob Gatzen says as an interesting approach to tuning? Regardless of whether you like the end result, he does give some solid points on how a drum works and what happens when your tuning. Stuff I would have liked to have known when I started tuning my own drums:)

[Countcrankula]

Sounds alright to me

http://www.youtube.c.../12/3bDzAIGuT5c

[kyle102565]

i tuned gatzens way and my toms sounded like cereal boxes

[Countcrankula]

kyle102565, on 29 March 2011 - 03:40 AM, said:

i tuned gatzens way and my toms sounded like cereal boxes

I'm sorry if people completely disagree with what I've shown to you juanchorw, only tried to help. Thought that this was a forum for other drummers to express their opinion freely in hoping to aid others. I don't expect everyone to agree with my methods or suggestions but if your gonna shoot something down at least add some constructive advice of your own to help this guy!

[juanchorw]

no no, personally i share ur oppinion about his method, independent of how his drums sound he is teaching a good way to tune the drums, or at least the technique, so thank you!

[kyle102565]

Countcrankula, on 29 March 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

I'm sorry if people completely disagree with what I've shown to you juanchorw, only tried to help. Thought that this was a forum for other drummers to express their opinion freely in hoping to aid others. I don't expect everyone to agree with my methods or suggestions but if your gonna shoot something down at least add some constructive advice of your own to help this guy!

there was nothing said that was offensive to anything posted. numerous people on forums besides this one, also feel gatzens tuning is lacking. hes not wrong in his approach, his end result for my ears and many others is unfinished. i tuned my kit exactly as he instructs in that video. my drums sounded awful. i learned how to tune from the advise given on this forum by poco, scotch and hellacool. plus months of experimenting.

[Vasheir]

kyle102565, on 29 March 2011 - 09:30 AM, said:

there was nothing said that was offensive to anything posted. numerous people on forums besides this one, also feel gatzens tuning is lacking. hes not wrong in his approach, his end result for my ears and many others is unfinished. i tuned my kit exactly as he instructs in that video. my drums sounded awful. i learned how to tune from the advise given on this forum by poco, scotch and hellacool. plus months of experimenting.

So what's different from your method and Bob's? His toms don't sound dead at all, are we all using the same speakers?

[Poco Askew]

I like almost everything Bob says, although I do not tune tom reso heads to the same pitch as the batters and I do NOT try to sing the pitch. I think his example sounds fine - not dead at all. Regardless, I think his method of tuning is valid. The only other change I make is to tune opposite lugs even when fine tuning. I do not fine tune sequentually around the rim like he does.

[realscotch]

I didn't mean to knock him as far as he is trying to help people learn. I just don't like his end results.

I'm a old school drummer (54 years), there were no books on tuning, a few on rudiments, and, rarely, a book on technique (Joe Morellos comes to mind). There wasn't the variety of heads that are available today. There were no DVD's, no net, nothing along those lines. You learned the old fashioned way, you sat with your drums and you learned to get the sound close to what you wanted. I say close because I doubt if any drummer gets his drums to sound "exactly" how he wants them, and if by some stroke of luck you get them "exactly" how you want them, as soon as you move them to another room, the sound changes.

Today, you have a thousand videos by who knows how many different drummers on how to tune, how to hold sticks, how to do this, that, and the next best thing. Some know what they are talking about, some are morons. It seems that every drummer that has reached a certain amout of fame now has a book or DVD out showing their 'approach" to playing. Again, some are OK, and some are a rehash of old things that drummers have known for decades.

There are people that want to know all the technical aspects of tuning, why the reso vibrates the way it does, how the air column moves within a given drum, how different heads affect your drums, why do birch drums sound different from drums made of maple. All that is fine, it doesn't hurt to know those things, but, on a day to day basis for your average drummer, most of that doesn't come in to play.

Buying a set of drums is a big expenditure for the average person, so if you think that a certain wood is going to give you the sound you want then buy them. Bear in mind that if you are a gigging drummer, their sound is going to change as you go from small club to a big hall. I just found out a couple of weeks ago that my drums are probably made out of mohogany, and, in all honesty, I could care less. I tune them, get the sound I want at the time and go from there. I can get almost any sound from my drums, from very bouncey to very flat. I learned to tune out of shear necessity. If you went to get a head for your drum, the guy handed you a Remo and you went on your way. So you learned to tune to get the sound you wanted.

There is no "tuned in a box" drumhead, you still have to get out your tuning key and tune them.

If you want to know what my stuff sounds like with Diplomats all around and Aquarians all around, PM me and I'll send you a video, before and after.


Poco, you said that Gatzens method of tuning is valid, but, you don't use it. Am I missing something here?